1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:02,389 and it hits me oh my gosh this is that 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:04,170 triangle you know there's explanation 3 00:00:07,309 --> 00:00:05,370 for everything that occurred in the 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:07,319 rendlesham forest incident it doesn't 5 00:00:13,190 --> 00:00:09,450 involve aliens at all it was completely 6 00:00:16,039 --> 00:00:13,200 silent it comes right over our head it's 7 00:00:17,660 --> 00:00:16,049 so a classic flying-saucer really 8 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:17,670 standing in the clearing he turned over 9 00:00:20,779 --> 00:00:19,410 to my father and held his hand and he 10 00:00:24,410 --> 00:00:20,789 looked in his eyes and said we're not 11 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:24,420 alone welcome to Podcast UFO for our 12 00:00:29,900 --> 00:00:27,210 live show our live shows are right here 13 00:00:32,020 --> 00:00:29,910 at eight pm eastern standard time please 14 00:00:35,870 --> 00:00:32,030 remember to visit the website podcast 15 00:00:38,150 --> 00:00:35,880 UFO com check out the latest blogs and 16 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:38,160 forums and while you're there don't 17 00:00:42,979 --> 00:00:40,890 forget to like our very active Facebook 18 00:00:45,170 --> 00:00:42,989 page hello and welcome to the show I'm 19 00:00:47,420 --> 00:00:45,180 Martin will if your host Sam moranto 20 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:47,430 will be joining us in a second we're 21 00:00:51,170 --> 00:00:48,930 coming at you live in the dark matter 22 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:51,180 radio network you can catch us here 23 00:00:55,910 --> 00:00:52,890 every wednesday at eight pm eastern 24 00:00:58,250 --> 00:00:55,920 standard time you can call in during our 25 00:01:01,069 --> 00:00:58,260 live show or skype us and i'll give you 26 00:01:04,009 --> 00:01:01,079 more information later on our guests for 27 00:01:06,830 --> 00:01:04,019 the show today is dr. Kevin Randall who 28 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:06,840 I always think of as a no-nonsense guy 29 00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:09,570 he says it the way it is and that's why 30 00:01:13,070 --> 00:01:11,310 i like about Kevin and he'll be coming 31 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:13,080 up in a little while after the break 32 00:01:17,749 --> 00:01:15,450 well Sam I want to talk to you about 33 00:01:19,730 --> 00:01:17,759 California I lived out there for about 34 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:19,740 nine years and a lot of stuffs been 35 00:01:24,679 --> 00:01:22,770 going on a lot of hoaxing and of course 36 00:01:26,810 --> 00:01:24,689 everybody's been talking about the crop 37 00:01:30,740 --> 00:01:26,820 circle so I have a little bit of beef 38 00:01:33,410 --> 00:01:30,750 with California Sam I I think I do to a 39 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:33,420 little bit yeah did you remember the 40 00:01:37,490 --> 00:01:35,850 other day I emailed you right after New 41 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:37,500 Year's Day right after we did our show 42 00:01:42,530 --> 00:01:39,810 that and I said to you look at all these 43 00:01:45,469 --> 00:01:42,540 UFO sightings on New Year's Eve they're 44 00:01:48,020 --> 00:01:45,479 all Chinese lanterns and laughable isn't 45 00:01:50,469 --> 00:01:48,030 it all there was gobs of them and pretty 46 00:01:53,090 --> 00:01:50,479 much the LA to do is look at the footage 47 00:01:54,649 --> 00:01:53,100 some of them I don't know because I 48 00:01:56,539 --> 00:01:54,659 didn't see all the footage and they were 49 00:01:59,870 --> 00:01:56,549 saying it was throughout the state 50 00:02:01,850 --> 00:01:59,880 pretty much or yeah people were setting 51 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:01,860 off fireworks and setting off Chinese 52 00:02:05,749 --> 00:02:03,090 lanterns at the same time that's 53 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:05,759 basically what was going on however 54 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:07,530 there was one guy that said he saw one 55 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:10,170 take off at a high rate of speed and 56 00:02:15,370 --> 00:02:12,890 either that was not the truth 57 00:02:17,559 --> 00:02:15,380 so to speak or he thought he saw 58 00:02:20,199 --> 00:02:17,569 something yeah it could either be the 59 00:02:23,620 --> 00:02:20,209 way he was looking at it or it could be 60 00:02:27,730 --> 00:02:23,630 something legit we again we've had in 61 00:02:29,350 --> 00:02:27,740 fact last year last year yeah it was 62 00:02:31,300 --> 00:02:29,360 last year of course anything happened 63 00:02:33,580 --> 00:02:31,310 last couple prior to a couple weeks ago 64 00:02:37,090 --> 00:02:33,590 the last year I was speaking at a 65 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:37,100 Plainfield library and a woman told me 66 00:02:40,750 --> 00:02:38,690 about an experience in the fourth july 67 00:02:43,530 --> 00:02:40,760 they were at a baseball game and this 68 00:02:46,180 --> 00:02:43,540 huge triangular object just SAT there 69 00:02:48,610 --> 00:02:46,190 over the baseball game they she looked 70 00:02:51,190 --> 00:02:48,620 up and she was in awe and there was like 71 00:02:52,990 --> 00:02:51,200 six or seven I'm looking but the rest of 72 00:02:55,030 --> 00:02:53,000 them were too engrossed in the game team 73 00:02:57,850 --> 00:02:55,040 and pay attention to this thing clearly 74 00:03:02,250 --> 00:02:57,860 a triangular object sitting perfectly 75 00:03:05,650 --> 00:03:02,260 still and it was huge directly over the 76 00:03:08,290 --> 00:03:05,660 field have you noticed how these UFOs 77 00:03:09,850 --> 00:03:08,300 seem to be sports fans they sure are hey 78 00:03:12,009 --> 00:03:09,860 I'm seeing this yeah I know they like 79 00:03:13,930 --> 00:03:12,019 baseball so that that's good that was 80 00:03:16,690 --> 00:03:13,940 very good points with me I love baseball 81 00:03:18,490 --> 00:03:16,700 right so next I want to talk to you 82 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:18,500 about the crop circle that's gone viral 83 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:21,290 and of course has come out that it was 84 00:03:25,509 --> 00:03:23,930 just a advertising ploy but right when 85 00:03:28,780 --> 00:03:25,519 that happened that was all over the news 86 00:03:30,789 --> 00:03:28,790 just like the UFOs and that was in i 87 00:03:32,530 --> 00:03:30,799 think it was like chawala or something 88 00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:32,540 like that california there was a guy 89 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:35,209 named brian anderson who emailed me the 90 00:03:40,479 --> 00:03:37,370 next day and he said that is some type 91 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:40,489 of marketing ploy some type of chip he 92 00:03:46,210 --> 00:03:43,730 works in the technical field and he knew 93 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:46,220 right away that's what it was and so I 94 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:50,090 forwarded that to Nancy Talbot a past 95 00:03:55,060 --> 00:03:52,250 guests that does crop circle research 96 00:03:57,789 --> 00:03:55,070 and you can go to on her website now BLT 97 00:04:00,850 --> 00:03:57,799 research she has articles on that about 98 00:04:03,310 --> 00:04:00,860 the findings but again another hoax and 99 00:04:05,170 --> 00:04:03,320 you know it really works when they're 100 00:04:07,180 --> 00:04:05,180 advertising like this because you know 101 00:04:09,130 --> 00:04:07,190 they get a lot of media and its really 102 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:09,140 unfortunate for all of us more things to 103 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:11,090 muddy the water basically oh absolutely 104 00:04:17,310 --> 00:04:14,930 and the thing was when I looked at it 105 00:04:20,949 --> 00:04:17,320 right off the bed I go that's a chip 106 00:04:23,170 --> 00:04:20,959 yeah it was just just look at it if you 107 00:04:26,230 --> 00:04:23,180 can see like what is it a depiction of 108 00:04:26,860 --> 00:04:26,240 its it's like it's a chip well you know 109 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:26,870 it's 110 00:04:31,270 --> 00:04:29,210 funny how this guy wrote me and said a 111 00:04:33,670 --> 00:04:31,280 lot of people didn't get it he didn't 112 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:33,680 understand why but another thing I 113 00:04:39,219 --> 00:04:36,770 listened to coast to coast i guess i can 114 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:39,229 say that in Linda Moulton Howe who I 115 00:04:44,379 --> 00:04:42,410 actually like but she kind of goes out 116 00:04:47,050 --> 00:04:44,389 there a bit sometimes without doing any 117 00:04:50,379 --> 00:04:47,060 research and she had all kinds of people 118 00:04:54,010 --> 00:04:50,389 involved they broke the code of 192 and 119 00:04:57,490 --> 00:04:54,020 she said okay 192 days from the day that 120 00:05:00,760 --> 00:04:57,500 was made is July eighth and the planets 121 00:05:03,700 --> 00:05:00,770 will be arranged in a 192 formation and 122 00:05:05,650 --> 00:05:03,710 this is a warning and it also is 123 00:05:07,810 --> 00:05:05,660 plutonium that could be dirty bombs you 124 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:07,820 know on and on and on out to like 12 125 00:05:13,180 --> 00:05:09,410 million people or 20 million people 126 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:13,190 whatever coast to coast has I mean wow I 127 00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:16,130 don't know things like that just you 128 00:05:20,310 --> 00:05:17,750 know I just think you have to be so 129 00:05:23,140 --> 00:05:20,320 careful before you come to conclusions 130 00:05:25,750 --> 00:05:23,150 especially of that magnitude and people 131 00:05:29,230 --> 00:05:25,760 say why does it take you so long to come 132 00:05:31,810 --> 00:05:29,240 out with the case tinley park sman how 133 00:05:34,270 --> 00:05:31,820 long I'll tell you why this is the prime 134 00:05:36,250 --> 00:05:34,280 example put it together right make sure 135 00:05:38,620 --> 00:05:36,260 everything's correct and present the 136 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:38,630 correct information whatever it is to 137 00:05:42,670 --> 00:05:40,490 make sure it's correct they'll write 138 00:05:46,540 --> 00:05:42,680 again the other thing is we keep 139 00:05:50,350 --> 00:05:46,550 forgetting with Linda more importantly 140 00:05:52,810 --> 00:05:50,360 importantly she is a journalist when a 141 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:52,820 journalist has to have a story and has 142 00:05:57,730 --> 00:05:55,250 to publish she has spots on these shows 143 00:06:00,850 --> 00:05:57,740 that she has to bring information and 144 00:06:04,210 --> 00:06:00,860 and I don't slide her for that but I do 145 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:04,220 think I don't think I know the because 146 00:06:08,409 --> 00:06:06,530 of that same thing with Jaime Mossad web 147 00:06:11,020 --> 00:06:08,419 tremendous amount of respect for all 148 00:06:13,750 --> 00:06:11,030 these people they jumped the gun to grab 149 00:06:15,670 --> 00:06:13,760 the story and put it out there I don't 150 00:06:18,550 --> 00:06:15,680 think that is the prudent way to go 151 00:06:20,620 --> 00:06:18,560 about it now with the resources that 152 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:20,630 they have she did I'll give her credit 153 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:24,410 this much she did get the 192 but I me 154 00:06:29,230 --> 00:06:27,050 personally I Julie came in and said you 155 00:06:30,879 --> 00:06:29,240 hear about this crop circle and i'm on 156 00:06:33,370 --> 00:06:30,889 the computer already working on it that 157 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:33,380 morning and sure enough and I and I says 158 00:06:38,230 --> 00:06:35,330 well I'm looking and I go that's a 159 00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:38,240 computer chip of some sort except for 160 00:06:42,470 --> 00:06:39,990 the exterior 161 00:06:44,810 --> 00:06:42,480 orbs or whatever they're supposed to be 162 00:06:47,210 --> 00:06:44,820 and who knows but that's a chip that's 163 00:06:49,940 --> 00:06:47,220 what a chip looks like and sure enough 164 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:49,950 that's what it was now going back to 165 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:53,010 what Nancy Talbot just told me a few 166 00:06:58,850 --> 00:06:56,250 minutes ago she had contacted and got 167 00:07:01,520 --> 00:06:58,860 ahold of someone that was working a farm 168 00:07:03,470 --> 00:07:01,530 tracker in the field right next to where 169 00:07:06,140 --> 00:07:03,480 they were making the glyph and watch 170 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:06,150 them make it so you know it's it's a 171 00:07:09,740 --> 00:07:08,250 wonder that story didn't get out right 172 00:07:12,620 --> 00:07:09,750 away before this whole thing went viral 173 00:07:15,590 --> 00:07:12,630 yeah that should have been nabbed right 174 00:07:18,130 --> 00:07:15,600 away unfortunately Nancy and Linda don't 175 00:07:20,630 --> 00:07:18,140 particularly share too much information 176 00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:20,640 that's part of the another problem we 177 00:07:26,060 --> 00:07:23,520 have in the research field as people 178 00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:26,070 like to be very territorial about their 179 00:07:31,070 --> 00:07:28,500 research and understandably within 180 00:07:33,740 --> 00:07:31,080 reason but when it comes to something 181 00:07:35,390 --> 00:07:33,750 like that I don't care if I knew another 182 00:07:37,130 --> 00:07:35,400 person was working on a case and I 183 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:37,140 caught wind of something I don't care 184 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:39,090 who it was could be something that 185 00:07:43,850 --> 00:07:41,850 really doesn't make me too happy I'd 186 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:43,860 still contact them because I would want 187 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:45,570 to make them have them look like a full 188 00:07:51,110 --> 00:07:47,850 the other thing is it does give a sort 189 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:51,120 of a black eye making us look like a 190 00:07:57,260 --> 00:07:54,690 bunch of nincompoops I think so this 191 00:08:00,320 --> 00:07:57,270 whole thing you know in California just 192 00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:00,330 what has transpired over the last week 193 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:02,190 it certainly doesn't help the UFO field 194 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:04,170 in any way that's for sure I think 195 00:08:09,620 --> 00:08:07,530 that'll do it for this week and so Sam 196 00:08:12,710 --> 00:08:09,630 we'll see you back here next week most 197 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:12,720 certainly and I'm busy on cases so yeah 198 00:08:16,190 --> 00:08:14,610 I heard that yet six come in today will 199 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:16,200 we should be talking about that pretty 200 00:08:21,140 --> 00:08:18,690 soon how busy you are and say a lot of 201 00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:21,150 Kevin for me great guy and excellent 202 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:22,710 researcher I'll tell you one thing 203 00:08:26,150 --> 00:08:24,090 you're going to have a great interview 204 00:08:28,730 --> 00:08:26,160 with them yeah I'm really looking 205 00:08:30,770 --> 00:08:28,740 forward to it alright everyone it's time 206 00:08:32,690 --> 00:08:30,780 for the break so hang in there and we'll 207 00:08:33,830 --> 00:08:32,700 be right back with Kevin Randall this 208 00:08:36,740 --> 00:08:33,840 song that I'm going to be playing right 209 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:36,750 now it's a shortened clip by a fan of 210 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:38,250 the show it seems like we have a lot of 211 00:08:45,710 --> 00:08:40,610 fans of the show that are musicians and 212 00:08:47,570 --> 00:08:45,720 the band name is sui vulc it's kind of 213 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:47,580 hard to pronounce the link to their 214 00:08:51,950 --> 00:08:49,290 website will be right in our show notes 215 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:51,960 and as always what Sam and I were just 216 00:08:53,879 --> 00:08:53,370 speaking about we'll all be in our show 217 00:08:56,220 --> 00:08:53,889 notes 218 00:09:55,049 --> 00:08:56,230 as well all right so that's it stay with 219 00:09:59,940 --> 00:09:58,030 when they say that there is an unknown 220 00:10:03,449 --> 00:09:59,950 motion to us 221 00:10:05,669 --> 00:10:03,459 fierce characteristic protect layup 222 00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:05,679 knowledge that there may be something 223 00:10:09,710 --> 00:10:08,230 that you haven't thought of 224 00:10:12,910 --> 00:10:09,720 feel that you 225 00:10:17,470 --> 00:10:15,400 our training in all the work that goes 226 00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:17,480 into the preparation or flight does 227 00:10:22,990 --> 00:10:20,240 everything in hand or erasing those 228 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:23,000 kinds of possibilities and I i would say 229 00:10:31,569 --> 00:10:27,050 that as a crew we have no fear of 230 00:10:33,970 --> 00:10:31,579 launching out on this expectation wow 231 00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:33,980 that sounds like bob lazar Kevin are you 232 00:10:41,019 --> 00:10:38,720 there yes I am hi Kevin well thanks so 233 00:10:43,150 --> 00:10:41,029 much for joining us and it's a real 234 00:10:44,769 --> 00:10:43,160 pleasure to have you on and like I said 235 00:10:47,259 --> 00:10:44,779 in the intro there I know you as a 236 00:10:49,689 --> 00:10:47,269 no-nonsense type of guy so it's a 237 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:49,699 pleasure we finally connect well I'm 238 00:10:53,949 --> 00:10:51,529 glad to finally get a chance to chat 239 00:10:56,350 --> 00:10:53,959 with you yeah you know Kevin could you 240 00:10:59,170 --> 00:10:56,360 tell the listening audience that may not 241 00:11:00,819 --> 00:10:59,180 be familiar how you got into the field 242 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:00,829 to begin with and you know you have a 243 00:11:05,769 --> 00:11:03,410 great military background you have a PhD 244 00:11:08,139 --> 00:11:05,779 and just can you just kind of go into 245 00:11:10,030 --> 00:11:08,149 your whole background you mean there are 246 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:10,040 people who don't know who I am Aaron 247 00:11:15,460 --> 00:11:12,110 well there's one or two you know we're 248 00:11:19,210 --> 00:11:15,470 in some other country maybe have have 249 00:11:22,420 --> 00:11:19,220 they not heard of wikipedia i have your 250 00:11:25,449 --> 00:11:22,430 page up right in front of me right now i 251 00:11:29,530 --> 00:11:25,459 can read it i'll read it verbatim how's 252 00:11:31,630 --> 00:11:29,540 that no great if you'd like to know I i 253 00:11:34,300 --> 00:11:31,640 think you know part of the question was 254 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:34,310 how did i get interested in this yes and 255 00:11:38,889 --> 00:11:37,130 I always blame my mother for that she 256 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:38,899 had an interest in science fiction and I 257 00:11:41,860 --> 00:11:40,610 remember as a kid she dragged me to a 258 00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:41,870 movie called earth vs. the flying 259 00:11:47,470 --> 00:11:45,529 saucers and so that is how I kind of got 260 00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:47,480 interested in it in the beginning so I 261 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:53,180 always blame her for that I have retired 262 00:11:58,720 --> 00:11:55,250 from the from the military i retired in 263 00:12:00,880 --> 00:11:58,730 2009 as a lieutenant colonel I spent a 264 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:00,890 tour in Vietnam as a helicopter pilot I 265 00:12:05,819 --> 00:12:03,290 spent some years in the Air Force both 266 00:12:07,930 --> 00:12:05,829 active and reserve time as a 267 00:12:09,730 --> 00:12:07,940 intelligence officer and then I did the 268 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:09,740 same thing with the national guard with 269 00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:13,850 a tour in Iraq in 2003 2004 and then 270 00:12:22,059 --> 00:12:18,639 retired as i said in 2009 I've studied 271 00:12:23,620 --> 00:12:22,069 UFOs since I was a kid there's no other 272 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:23,630 way to put it it's the only way I can 273 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:26,930 say it found some interesting things 274 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:30,170 learned a lot of stuff about it and find 275 00:12:36,490 --> 00:12:33,770 that in the world today a lot of the 276 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:36,500 people who are involved with UFOs are 277 00:12:43,930 --> 00:12:41,710 more interested in having their opinions 278 00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:43,940 validated rather than finding out what 279 00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:45,680 the truth is they will say well what's 280 00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:47,360 your opinion on this case and explain 281 00:12:52,269 --> 00:12:49,880 why I find the case interesting or I 282 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:52,279 don't find it interesting and and if 283 00:12:55,949 --> 00:12:54,050 it's one that they're really into then 284 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:55,959 they become angry with me because I've 285 00:13:00,430 --> 00:12:58,250 bad-mouthed their case and they've asked 286 00:13:02,980 --> 00:13:00,440 me for what my opinion is on a specific 287 00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:02,990 case or a specific specific event so 288 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:04,910 there's really nothing more I can do 289 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:06,770 then tell them what I what I think the 290 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:08,930 truth may be which is not to say i can't 291 00:13:12,130 --> 00:13:10,610 be wrong on some of this stuff but 292 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:12,140 there's an awful lot of information out 293 00:13:19,630 --> 00:13:16,910 there about what's going on and i think 294 00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:19,640 we need to look at it in depth and one 295 00:13:24,190 --> 00:13:21,529 of the things we just did on my blog was 296 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:24,200 i had put up a short posting about the 297 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:26,450 tremonton or the fremington utah film 298 00:13:34,019 --> 00:13:30,170 from july seventh 1952 taken by a navy 299 00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:34,029 warrant officer and by going through the 300 00:13:39,699 --> 00:13:36,470 documentation available the Condon 301 00:13:41,890 --> 00:13:39,709 committee report on that the Air Force 302 00:13:43,540 --> 00:13:41,900 Project Blue Book files and all of that 303 00:13:46,449 --> 00:13:43,550 stuff we found out some very interesting 304 00:13:48,070 --> 00:13:46,459 things in today's environment and one of 305 00:13:49,390 --> 00:13:48,080 the things we can point to is a condom 306 00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:49,400 committee they they say well there they 307 00:13:54,670 --> 00:13:51,920 investigated all this stuff turns out 308 00:13:57,340 --> 00:13:54,680 that the chief investigator on that 309 00:14:00,280 --> 00:13:57,350 particular sighting didn't even bother 310 00:14:02,199 --> 00:14:00,290 to talk to the man who took the film all 311 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:02,209 he did was read the Air Force file and 312 00:14:06,519 --> 00:14:04,250 say well it's probably birds and let it 313 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:06,529 go at that it's just a preposterous way 314 00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:09,650 to do research so it's not only the UFO 315 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:11,360 community there's some of that stuff but 316 00:14:18,610 --> 00:14:14,690 it's the alleged scientific community as 317 00:14:21,310 --> 00:14:18,620 well right right and what are you 318 00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:21,320 working on these days we can talk you 319 00:14:27,819 --> 00:14:25,630 know go back to your such a major a 320 00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:27,829 researcher in the Roswell case we can 321 00:14:32,860 --> 00:14:29,600 talk about that in a little bit but what 322 00:14:35,650 --> 00:14:32,870 are you doing these days I've got a book 323 00:14:38,260 --> 00:14:35,660 coming out in May I find out from other 324 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:38,270 people I think the publisher didn't 325 00:14:40,809 --> 00:14:39,890 bother to can communicate with me but I 326 00:14:43,449 --> 00:14:40,819 have a book 327 00:14:45,129 --> 00:14:43,459 coming out may about the what's found in 328 00:14:46,809 --> 00:14:45,139 the government files and what I had done 329 00:14:51,729 --> 00:14:46,819 was go back and look at a lot of the 330 00:14:54,039 --> 00:14:51,739 cases that have come up and there's a 331 00:14:55,449 --> 00:14:54,049 government files on those Project Blue 332 00:15:00,400 --> 00:14:55,459 Book files on them or other government 333 00:15:02,349 --> 00:15:00,410 files and and look at this stuff in 334 00:15:07,449 --> 00:15:02,359 depth one of the cases that I looked at 335 00:15:09,819 --> 00:15:07,459 was the J al I think it's what 1629 case 336 00:15:11,529 --> 00:15:09,829 from from the mid-1980s where airline 337 00:15:13,989 --> 00:15:11,539 crew a Japanese airline crew had seen a 338 00:15:17,079 --> 00:15:13,999 flying saucer seen some kind of a craft 339 00:15:20,559 --> 00:15:17,089 and it turns out i had a chance to talk 340 00:15:22,269 --> 00:15:20,569 to the FAA chief investigator on it just 341 00:15:25,539 --> 00:15:22,279 briefly about that to give his opinions 342 00:15:28,210 --> 00:15:25,549 but what is interesting is they have 30 343 00:15:29,889 --> 00:15:28,220 minutes of radar tracking recorded on 344 00:15:34,509 --> 00:15:29,899 this thing so they could reconstruct the 345 00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:34,519 sighting in great gaps so that there's 346 00:15:40,299 --> 00:15:37,910 an awful lot of data about that and this 347 00:15:42,309 --> 00:15:40,309 investigator John Callahan told me that 348 00:15:46,989 --> 00:15:42,319 they had gone to the White House to 349 00:15:49,149 --> 00:15:46,999 present that data and CIA agents had 350 00:15:51,489 --> 00:15:49,159 been there see a CIA representatives 351 00:15:54,729 --> 00:15:51,499 they said we're not here they'll be just 352 00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:54,739 show what you have we're not here and so 353 00:15:59,710 --> 00:15:56,720 I mean here's a case where where we know 354 00:16:01,509 --> 00:15:59,720 the CIA has had some interest in it we 355 00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:01,519 know that the thing was tracked on at 356 00:16:05,559 --> 00:16:02,959 least two different radars although I 357 00:16:07,569 --> 00:16:05,569 think based on what i can find the 358 00:16:10,869 --> 00:16:07,579 source of the radar signal is the same 359 00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:10,879 but what what it had is there's one 360 00:16:16,239 --> 00:16:13,519 radar station its signal went to the FAA 361 00:16:17,979 --> 00:16:16,249 and to the Air Force and the signal 362 00:16:20,379 --> 00:16:17,989 discriminations were set differently on 363 00:16:22,509 --> 00:16:20,389 the two radars because of the missions 364 00:16:24,909 --> 00:16:22,519 of the two different organizations so it 365 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:24,919 looks like there may be two radars but 366 00:16:28,809 --> 00:16:26,929 not really and and things like that so 367 00:16:29,979 --> 00:16:28,819 yeah I looked at all of that kind of 368 00:16:32,349 --> 00:16:29,989 stuff and kind of brought it to the 369 00:16:34,029 --> 00:16:32,359 forefront and in the course of that I 370 00:16:36,309 --> 00:16:34,039 found an article that had just peered in 371 00:16:37,899 --> 00:16:36,319 an Alaskan newspaper where they kind of 372 00:16:39,369 --> 00:16:37,909 bad mouthed the case made it look like 373 00:16:41,769 --> 00:16:39,379 the pilots were a bunch of a couple of 374 00:16:43,090 --> 00:16:41,779 buffoons so I sent him an email and I 375 00:16:44,229 --> 00:16:43,100 said you know that's not quite right you 376 00:16:45,669 --> 00:16:44,239 really ought to look at this stuff and 377 00:16:47,769 --> 00:16:45,679 they said well can you send us a a 378 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:47,779 letter to the editor so I did and then 379 00:16:51,249 --> 00:16:49,850 they wanted it shortened so I did then 380 00:16:52,479 --> 00:16:51,259 they wanted something else I said you 381 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:52,489 know this really doesn't interest me i 382 00:16:56,670 --> 00:16:54,370 was just informing you you're 383 00:16:59,370 --> 00:16:56,680 so wrong and you should look at this 384 00:17:02,340 --> 00:16:59,380 stuff in depth rather than just if 385 00:17:05,699 --> 00:17:02,350 you're going to if you're going to offer 386 00:17:07,380 --> 00:17:05,709 an opinion you're obligated to make sure 387 00:17:11,090 --> 00:17:07,390 you've got the information accurately 388 00:17:13,770 --> 00:17:11,100 accurate you cannot just make a pun 389 00:17:16,110 --> 00:17:13,780 announcement on the case because that's 390 00:17:17,610 --> 00:17:16,120 what you think is true and too often in 391 00:17:20,730 --> 00:17:17,620 the media now we see that sort of thing 392 00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:20,740 we see it we constantly from the best of 393 00:17:25,860 --> 00:17:22,959 the alleged journalistic community to 394 00:17:27,059 --> 00:17:25,870 the 2v and I hesitate to say it to them 395 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:27,069 down to the bloggers because I'm a 396 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:30,730 blogger myself but I mean just throwing 397 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:33,130 out what they would like it to be as 398 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:35,770 opposed to what it really is right right 399 00:17:42,060 --> 00:17:38,770 there is there is a lot of that and you 400 00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:42,070 know mainstream media you you know these 401 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:43,960 things happen all the time and you know 402 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:46,450 I can't understand what's happened to 403 00:17:51,150 --> 00:17:49,450 journalism and and well 60 minutes just 404 00:17:53,370 --> 00:17:51,160 got hammered for this Benghazi story 405 00:17:55,140 --> 00:17:53,380 they did this big story on on what 406 00:17:57,180 --> 00:17:55,150 happened in Benghazi and it turned out 407 00:17:59,280 --> 00:17:57,190 there in some kind of a symbiotic 408 00:18:01,680 --> 00:17:59,290 relationship with the publisher the guys 409 00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:01,690 booked so it's really not an 410 00:18:06,540 --> 00:18:04,240 investigative piece by CBS News it's 411 00:18:09,150 --> 00:18:06,550 really a puff piece and a commercial for 412 00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:09,160 this guy book and they got emmert on it 413 00:18:13,950 --> 00:18:11,020 quickly and they would drew the story 414 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:13,960 and they would drew the book and the 415 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:17,410 journalist who did the story she's now 416 00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:20,170 on leave and I suspect she won't be back 417 00:18:26,910 --> 00:18:23,910 yeah but because she didn't she didn't 418 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:26,920 do some things that you would expect to 419 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:28,450 journalists to doing us well as kind of 420 00:18:34,410 --> 00:18:32,290 one of things I do in this big thing 421 00:18:36,299 --> 00:18:34,420 about the new house Utah film one of the 422 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:36,309 things i had mentioned in my blog 423 00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:38,290 posting on it is i taught the new house 424 00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:41,620 in 1976 and the skeptics jump on me and 425 00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:43,840 says well these young memories of his 426 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:46,480 that are 25 years old or no good because 427 00:18:50,730 --> 00:18:48,250 he didn't report this in the beginning 428 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:50,740 and all of this jazz i said and the only 429 00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:53,170 reason i mention it was to say that i 430 00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:56,080 talked to the guy and the investigator 431 00:19:00,030 --> 00:18:58,210 from the university of colorado study 432 00:19:01,650 --> 00:19:00,040 the scientific study couldn't even make 433 00:19:04,020 --> 00:19:01,660 that claim he hadn't talked to the guy 434 00:19:06,090 --> 00:19:04,030 and all i want to do was make sure that 435 00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:06,100 some of the reports I'd read about what 436 00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:08,160 he had supposedly said were accurate 437 00:19:11,870 --> 00:19:09,900 which I thought you know just basic 438 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:11,880 journalism 101 call the guy who did you 439 00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:13,410 really say this he says yeah I did the 440 00:19:17,570 --> 00:19:15,630 same thing with Bill Brazel in Roswell 441 00:19:19,220 --> 00:19:17,580 before I really did anything with it I 442 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:19,230 call Bill Branson on the phone and it 443 00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:20,610 was really hard to find his number I 444 00:19:26,420 --> 00:19:23,640 called New Mexico and they asked for 445 00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:26,430 Capitan and and they said yes I said 446 00:19:29,540 --> 00:19:28,110 Bill Bradley gave me the number you can 447 00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:29,550 call New York City and they won't give 448 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:30,840 you the number of somebody in the same 449 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:32,850 building with them but i can call New 450 00:19:35,930 --> 00:19:34,530 Mexico and get bill brothels phone 451 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:35,940 number so I called him and chatted with 452 00:19:41,540 --> 00:19:40,170 him briefly about it to find out if what 453 00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:41,550 he had been quoted the same with 454 00:19:46,850 --> 00:19:44,160 accurate and his answer was yes pretty 455 00:19:48,830 --> 00:19:46,860 much and I had an opportunity then to 456 00:19:50,750 --> 00:19:48,840 meet with him on several occasions and 457 00:19:52,570 --> 00:19:50,760 talk to him on several occasions about 458 00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:52,580 what he had seen in what he had done 459 00:19:58,460 --> 00:19:57,120 well and was that Max was that his son 460 00:20:01,550 --> 00:19:58,470 you know about that was there was Bill 461 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:01,560 Brazel a Mac bat basile had died i think 462 00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:04,650 in 1963 yeah i think that i think that's 463 00:20:08,540 --> 00:20:06,270 the date so we were talking to the sun 464 00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:08,550 but bill Brazel had interacted with his 465 00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:10,620 father of course and Bill Brazel had 466 00:20:14,930 --> 00:20:12,900 picked up some of the debris he'd seen 467 00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:14,940 the gouge left by the craft when it when 468 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:17,910 it came down on he'd seen he found bits 469 00:20:23,060 --> 00:20:20,130 of the debris so in that respect he's a 470 00:20:25,460 --> 00:20:23,070 first-hand witness so we could get some 471 00:20:28,010 --> 00:20:25,470 of that and I was able to verify what he 472 00:20:32,290 --> 00:20:28,020 said and I and I find out if you if you 473 00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:32,300 look at some of these UFO books they're 474 00:20:36,890 --> 00:20:35,310 reporting what others have reported what 475 00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:36,900 others are reported and what others are 476 00:20:40,220 --> 00:20:38,580 reported they don't bother to check out 477 00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:40,230 the date of themselves to make sure it's 478 00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:43,320 accurate the way I know Bert brad 479 00:20:49,730 --> 00:20:46,320 steiger I knew I knew the code to get in 480 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:49,740 touch with him I knew how to find brad 481 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:51,450 steiger where it was and I was looking 482 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:53,610 at the story of the kid that disappeared 483 00:20:59,390 --> 00:20:57,690 to Wales back in 1909 and so I called 484 00:21:01,550 --> 00:20:59,400 brad steiger to asking why so now know 485 00:21:03,620 --> 00:21:01,560 about to hoax they'd found out it was a 486 00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:03,630 hoax happy published in his book and I 487 00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:05,070 thought well a that was that was very 488 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:08,400 cool of brad steiger to tell me that and 489 00:21:13,150 --> 00:21:11,250 be i was able to verify from the 490 00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:13,160 researcher what had happened and 491 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:15,480 therefore i didn't i didn't make the 492 00:21:18,620 --> 00:21:17,010 same mistakes that others had made about 493 00:21:19,940 --> 00:21:18,630 reporting this thing as if it was real 494 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:19,950 and accurate 495 00:21:26,299 --> 00:21:23,850 right right now are you still involved 496 00:21:31,789 --> 00:21:26,309 at all in doing the ongoing research in 497 00:21:35,620 --> 00:21:31,799 Roswell very little had I more time more 498 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:35,630 geared toward this project mogul thing 499 00:21:40,039 --> 00:21:38,370 only because it's such a preposterous 500 00:21:43,370 --> 00:21:40,049 explanation I can't believe anybody 501 00:21:47,389 --> 00:21:43,380 takes that explanation seriously and 502 00:21:49,310 --> 00:21:47,399 what we've discovered is when I hesitate 503 00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:49,320 to do that because because Charles Moore 504 00:21:53,779 --> 00:21:52,080 is dead you can't defend himself but we 505 00:21:56,779 --> 00:21:53,789 found a real and accuracy and what he 506 00:21:58,909 --> 00:21:56,789 was doing and he had to know it and so 507 00:21:59,990 --> 00:21:58,919 he was perpetuating a myth so that he 508 00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:00,000 could be the guy that launched the 509 00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:02,240 Roswell case but but what he had done 510 00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:05,940 was change the lunch time of the flight 511 00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:07,440 number four I mean the flight number 512 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:10,529 four was cancelled so it didn't fly and 513 00:22:14,330 --> 00:22:12,690 we know the service flight which was a 514 00:22:16,399 --> 00:22:14,340 cluster of balloons with a sono boy a 515 00:22:19,870 --> 00:22:16,409 microphone on it which is not a full 516 00:22:22,220 --> 00:22:19,880 mogul array but but more change the data 517 00:22:23,690 --> 00:22:22,230 from the launch time which would have 518 00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:23,700 been the normal lunch time for the 519 00:22:27,769 --> 00:22:26,190 mobile arrays in that period in New 520 00:22:30,169 --> 00:22:27,779 Mexico would have been just after dawn 521 00:22:31,610 --> 00:22:30,179 he had to change it to three o'clock in 522 00:22:33,769 --> 00:22:31,620 the morning to make the winds aloft data 523 00:22:36,769 --> 00:22:33,779 work he had to know what he was doing 524 00:22:38,539 --> 00:22:36,779 and you can argue the winds aloft date 525 00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:38,549 and what it means I think Brad sparks 526 00:22:43,159 --> 00:22:40,529 and David rudy ack has done some work on 527 00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:43,169 that and suggested that he had more had 528 00:22:47,539 --> 00:22:45,720 manipulated the numbers and I mean I'm 529 00:22:50,149 --> 00:22:47,549 inclined if you've got an atmospheric 530 00:22:52,129 --> 00:22:50,159 physicist telling you one thing and two 531 00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:52,139 guys who are not atmospheric physicists 532 00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:53,580 telling you something else i'm inclined 533 00:22:58,850 --> 00:22:55,110 to go with the atmospheric physicist i 534 00:23:03,110 --> 00:22:58,860 would go with Charles mores calculations 535 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:03,120 on what the thing went based on his is 536 00:23:10,340 --> 00:23:06,330 his education but then something is very 537 00:23:12,019 --> 00:23:10,350 easy for all of us to understand is the 538 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:12,029 fact that he changed the time the 539 00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:13,710 original calculations you've done the 540 00:23:17,779 --> 00:23:15,840 mentions the launch time was right after 541 00:23:20,450 --> 00:23:17,789 dönitz somewhere around 5 15 in the 542 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:20,460 morning in July of 1947 and all the 543 00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:24,210 other flights in June of 1947 all other 544 00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,950 flights that were launched were launched 545 00:23:30,350 --> 00:23:27,840 right after Dawn's 546 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:30,360 so we know that and yet he had to back 547 00:23:33,740 --> 00:23:31,890 the time up three o'clock in the morning 548 00:23:35,779 --> 00:23:33,750 to make the winds aloft day to work so 549 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:35,789 he won report he said it was launched 550 00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:38,610 just after dawn in another report they 551 00:23:42,649 --> 00:23:40,380 launched at three o'clock in the morning 552 00:23:46,580 --> 00:23:42,659 he hadn't know what he was doing the CAA 553 00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:46,590 which is a 402 the FAA prohibited 554 00:23:49,820 --> 00:23:48,480 launches of these big long arrays in the 555 00:23:51,380 --> 00:23:49,830 dark because pilots couldn't see them 556 00:23:54,289 --> 00:23:51,390 and they can fly into the 600-foot 557 00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:54,299 arrays and caused a catastrophic failure 558 00:23:59,210 --> 00:23:57,120 so they had to be launched without any 559 00:24:00,919 --> 00:23:59,220 cloud cover and so if you've got some 560 00:24:02,180 --> 00:24:00,929 cumulus clouds going up there he doesn't 561 00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:02,190 even have to be much of a cloud cover 562 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:03,360 they couldn't launch because the clouds 563 00:24:08,210 --> 00:24:05,850 could hide these things and they 564 00:24:09,820 --> 00:24:08,220 couldn't launch at the dot in dark so he 565 00:24:12,260 --> 00:24:09,830 could they could have launched it at 566 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:12,270 three o'clock in the morning and in the 567 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:14,850 diary the documentation from the time 568 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:18,890 says the flight had been cancelled so 569 00:24:23,299 --> 00:24:21,690 you know I've been looking into that 570 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:23,309 sort of thing we found a lot of other 571 00:24:28,220 --> 00:24:26,130 stuff which gets really into the 572 00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:28,230 minutiae of it but it but in the 573 00:24:35,230 --> 00:24:29,820 aggregate what would you end up 574 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:35,240 realizing is that Moore's analysis NORs 575 00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:38,130 report on it simply as an accurate the 576 00:24:42,620 --> 00:24:39,840 documentation does not support what he 577 00:24:45,169 --> 00:24:42,630 says you know now when did you first get 578 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:45,179 involved in the Roswell case to begin 579 00:24:53,419 --> 00:24:50,730 with it would have been in 1988 the 580 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:53,429 Center for UFO studies in looking at 581 00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:56,970 against the more and that would be bill 582 00:25:01,940 --> 00:24:58,320 more as opposed to Charles more bill 583 00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:01,950 more and charles berlitz book on the 584 00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:04,110 roswell incident and some of the things 585 00:25:07,820 --> 00:25:06,080 that stand Friedman had done and said 586 00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:07,830 realized that there was not a lot of 587 00:25:14,419 --> 00:25:12,049 work to be done and so they proposed a 588 00:25:15,769 --> 00:25:14,429 reinvestigation of roswell and i was 589 00:25:17,299 --> 00:25:15,779 invited in because they knew who I was 590 00:25:21,380 --> 00:25:17,309 and I'd worked with him on some things 591 00:25:23,060 --> 00:25:21,390 but the invited man but he by 592 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:23,070 coincidence I had been at a science 593 00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:26,730 fiction convention in 1980 tune of 1988 594 00:25:30,529 --> 00:25:27,960 and there was going to be a big debate 595 00:25:33,260 --> 00:25:30,539 on UFO knows science fiction writers 596 00:25:35,870 --> 00:25:33,270 against these guys coming up from the 597 00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:35,880 center I was going to be arguing with 598 00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:38,070 the science fiction writers that gives 599 00:25:41,779 --> 00:25:40,620 the guy is better and when when we got 600 00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:41,789 ready to go it turn 601 00:25:44,269 --> 00:25:43,200 now one of the guys couldn't make it 602 00:25:45,859 --> 00:25:44,279 from the center so it would have been 603 00:25:48,349 --> 00:25:45,869 three science fiction writers against 604 00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:48,359 one guy from the center so I switch 605 00:25:52,340 --> 00:25:50,820 sides because it's a debate and you can 606 00:25:53,509 --> 00:25:52,350 do that in debate you're supposed to in 607 00:25:55,249 --> 00:25:53,519 the debate you're supposed to be able to 608 00:25:58,849 --> 00:25:55,259 argue leave the either side so I'll just 609 00:26:00,859 --> 00:25:58,859 argue the UFO side and and got to 610 00:26:03,109 --> 00:26:00,869 talking to turns out to be done Schmidt 611 00:26:05,479 --> 00:26:03,119 and they remembered that in my military 612 00:26:07,969 --> 00:26:05,489 background so they asked if I would 613 00:26:10,460 --> 00:26:07,979 participate in this investigation of the 614 00:26:14,509 --> 00:26:10,470 laws well case I said sure why not so 615 00:26:17,719 --> 00:26:14,519 don and i went there in February of 1989 616 00:26:20,539 --> 00:26:17,729 I talked to Bill Moore not Bill Moore a 617 00:26:24,469 --> 00:26:20,549 bill Brazel I talked to Bill Brazel get 618 00:26:26,539 --> 00:26:24,479 in late 1988 and sent him a letter and 619 00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:26,549 asked him you know he would meet with us 620 00:26:31,849 --> 00:26:29,070 which he agreed to do so we met with him 621 00:26:34,099 --> 00:26:31,859 in February of 1989 and sat down and 622 00:26:35,719 --> 00:26:34,109 chatted with him about what he had seen 623 00:26:39,379 --> 00:26:35,729 him what he'd done so it is the 624 00:26:41,149 --> 00:26:39,389 beginning was that's a long convoluted 625 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:41,159 way of getting us to the beginning of 626 00:26:48,589 --> 00:26:44,970 the story and how I happened to be Bill 627 00:26:50,210 --> 00:26:48,599 Brazel it was really funny afterwards he 628 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:50,220 wouldn't meet with anybody else he just 629 00:26:53,389 --> 00:26:51,450 he would meet with us whenever were 630 00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:53,399 there we look forward to meeting with us 631 00:26:57,859 --> 00:26:56,159 yeah he took us out to the debris field 632 00:26:59,359 --> 00:26:57,869 where he found his stuff and it's eight 633 00:27:02,239 --> 00:26:59,369 o'clock in the morning we're writing in 634 00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:02,249 his ratty old red pickup truck he's got 635 00:27:07,339 --> 00:27:04,559 a six-pack of warm beer with him as you 636 00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:07,349 guys want a beer and last thing I wanted 637 00:27:11,719 --> 00:27:08,609 eight o'clock in the morning as a walk 638 00:27:13,729 --> 00:27:11,729 here in this but he I figured one of us 639 00:27:16,210 --> 00:27:13,739 ought to drink with him so I had a warm 640 00:27:18,169 --> 00:27:16,220 feeling in a sock in the morning but so 641 00:27:20,210 --> 00:27:18,179 handling he would always meet with this 642 00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:20,220 I tried to get him to do the unsolved 643 00:27:23,930 --> 00:27:21,720 mysteries program and he just wouldn't 644 00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:23,940 do it now I was suggesting for producers 645 00:27:27,529 --> 00:27:25,200 what you need to do is this miss 646 00:27:29,089 --> 00:27:27,539 investing it is interesting he just 647 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:29,099 didn't didn't really have an interest in 648 00:27:33,979 --> 00:27:30,690 doing any of that stuff but he'd always 649 00:27:35,539 --> 00:27:33,989 meet with with me or with Don and me 650 00:27:38,269 --> 00:27:35,549 when we got down there and then later on 651 00:27:40,399 --> 00:27:38,279 he met with Donna and Tom Carrie when 652 00:27:42,379 --> 00:27:40,409 they were down there so we we opened the 653 00:27:44,749 --> 00:27:42,389 door at least for us to get to talk to 654 00:27:49,549 --> 00:27:44,759 him and I recorded everything he said to 655 00:27:51,229 --> 00:27:49,559 us with a do tape we wanted to sit down 656 00:27:52,549 --> 00:27:51,239 with him to do videotape and he always 657 00:27:54,019 --> 00:27:52,559 said he's going to do it whenever we 658 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:54,029 were there with the camry just wasn't 659 00:27:58,700 --> 00:27:55,170 ready to do it and 660 00:28:00,740 --> 00:27:58,710 his long since passed away so that ship 661 00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:00,750 sailed but we do have auto recado 662 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:04,350 recordings both of him in person and on 663 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:05,970 the telephone of what he said to us so 664 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:07,890 we can demonstrate that yeah he really 665 00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,530 said this doesn't mean it's true just 666 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:12,240 means we're accurately pointing what the 667 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:15,330 guy told us right right hey I want to 668 00:28:18,830 --> 00:28:17,730 take calls for anyone out there any 669 00:28:21,410 --> 00:28:18,840 listener out there that would like to 670 00:28:27,550 --> 00:28:21,420 call in for any question for Kevin the 671 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:27,560 phone number here is 60 396 740 30 672 00:28:38,690 --> 00:28:33,570 that's 60 396 740 30 or you can skype me 673 00:28:43,250 --> 00:28:38,700 at Marty Willis that's ma rty WI ll is 674 00:28:46,670 --> 00:28:43,260 all one word so what is the most 675 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:46,680 profound thing that Brazel said did he 676 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:50,850 actually see the debris himself he had 677 00:28:56,510 --> 00:28:53,490 scraps of it he had picked it up he had 678 00:28:59,870 --> 00:28:56,520 said in the in a couple of years after 679 00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,880 this event he'd been out on that part of 680 00:29:03,860 --> 00:29:01,200 the range and he said everyone every was 681 00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:03,870 out there he would look down they did a 682 00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:05,520 lot of stuff on horseback so he was 683 00:29:10,190 --> 00:29:07,350 riding the horse looking down and he 684 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:10,200 said he found maybe ten maybe maybe a 685 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:13,410 dozen scraps of this stuff he found some 686 00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:15,810 some what he called monofilament fishing 687 00:29:20,570 --> 00:29:18,720 line that he said that when you shined a 688 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:20,580 light in one end it would come out the 689 00:29:26,540 --> 00:29:22,170 other which of course means it's fiber 690 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:26,550 optics he found a some some debris that 691 00:29:31,910 --> 00:29:29,010 it had the density of balsa wood very 692 00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,920 lightweight and he got out his 693 00:29:34,730 --> 00:29:33,840 pocketknife he wanted to take a shaving 694 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:34,740 of it to see if there was any 695 00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:37,170 stratification in it and he couldn't get 696 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:39,360 a shaving with his pocket night he's and 697 00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:41,010 I used a pocketknife said bar boiler and 698 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:43,200 I couldn't get a shaming on it and then 699 00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:44,370 he said but the most interesting piece 700 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:46,110 was this little bit of foil he said it 701 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:49,170 was like like think he said lead foil as 702 00:29:56,660 --> 00:29:51,510 opposed to tin foil or aluminum for so 703 00:29:59,180 --> 00:29:56,670 it's it's thicker gauge material and he 704 00:30:00,650 --> 00:29:59,190 said he had it in his chaps puck and he 705 00:30:02,060 --> 00:30:00,660 pulled it out and threw it down on the 706 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:02,070 dresser drawer and it started to unfold 707 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:03,810 itself going back to its original shape 708 00:30:08,540 --> 00:30:05,490 me so I'm then I got to playing with it 709 00:30:12,590 --> 00:30:08,550 so we got some kind of 710 00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:12,600 memory metal going on there and he said 711 00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:14,940 he had it had in a cigar shop box he 712 00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:16,860 showed it to his father who said yeah 713 00:30:21,580 --> 00:30:18,240 that looks like some of the contraption 714 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:21,590 I found but he was in corona New Mexico 715 00:30:25,910 --> 00:30:23,910 talking to his friends and mentioned 716 00:30:28,550 --> 00:30:25,920 that he had this debris and he said the 717 00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:28,560 next few days some fellas from the base 718 00:30:36,110 --> 00:30:31,380 showed up I don't know whether it was 719 00:30:37,910 --> 00:30:36,120 the Roswell base Kirtland Alamogordo I 720 00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:37,920 mean they're all within easy driving 721 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:40,310 distance of the Brazel ranch at the time 722 00:30:45,890 --> 00:30:42,930 and he said it was really nice fellow of 723 00:30:47,650 --> 00:30:45,900 redheaded captain a couple of an NCO and 724 00:30:50,060 --> 00:30:47,660 a couple of the most other listed guys 725 00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:50,070 and they made it clear to him that he 726 00:30:54,290 --> 00:30:51,840 was going to surrender the material he 727 00:30:55,610 --> 00:30:54,300 came to get the material and he 728 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:55,620 surrendered it to them and then they 729 00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:56,970 went out he showed him where he'd found 730 00:31:01,130 --> 00:30:58,530 it may spent a couple of hours looking 731 00:31:02,780 --> 00:31:01,140 around out there and then left so he 732 00:31:04,850 --> 00:31:02,790 lost that which would have been a 733 00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:04,860 wonderful wonderful bit of evidence for 734 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:07,740 the back of this as well boy boy Kevin 735 00:31:11,450 --> 00:31:09,930 just one second here I want to apologize 736 00:31:12,860 --> 00:31:11,460 to the listeners that are listening live 737 00:31:15,700 --> 00:31:12,870 right now I guess there's some type of 738 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:15,710 audio crackling or something going on 739 00:31:20,810 --> 00:31:18,690 I'm recording a nice clean podcast on 740 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:20,820 this side you'll be able to come to my 741 00:31:25,340 --> 00:31:23,010 website and re-listen I apologize for 742 00:31:27,530 --> 00:31:25,350 that and instead of just disrupting the 743 00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:27,540 whole show i'll just keep going but we 744 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:31,310 have a person on skype Kurt how are you 745 00:31:40,370 --> 00:31:34,290 all right and you have a question for 746 00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:40,380 Kevin yes I do I was wondering i miss 747 00:31:43,340 --> 00:31:41,820 the beginning the show so maybe you've 748 00:31:46,220 --> 00:31:43,350 already talked about this but Paul 749 00:31:48,830 --> 00:31:46,230 Hellyer has been in the news I'm sure 750 00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:48,840 Kevin seen that and I just wanted his 751 00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:52,140 response to that and I didn't want to 752 00:31:58,790 --> 00:31:54,720 say though it is best i can tell mr. 753 00:32:02,180 --> 00:31:58,800 Hellyer's understanding UFO began with 754 00:32:04,790 --> 00:32:02,190 the beliefs of Colonel courses book and 755 00:32:08,930 --> 00:32:04,800 I think that's been discredited so 756 00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:08,940 anyway that's my question based I think 757 00:32:14,930 --> 00:32:11,360 you're right at carsales book has been 758 00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:14,940 pretty well discredited the tail on how 759 00:32:20,690 --> 00:32:18,240 he saw the alien body is Marilyn 760 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:20,700 militarily makes no sense to me 761 00:32:24,590 --> 00:32:22,110 whatsoever as 762 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:24,600 former intelligence officer if you're 763 00:32:30,890 --> 00:32:29,130 shipping a classified thing whatever it 764 00:32:33,260 --> 00:32:30,900 might be your records whatever they 765 00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:33,270 happen to be from point A to point B and 766 00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,559 in the military you have what's called a 767 00:32:39,020 --> 00:32:36,480 run remain overnight and you plan your 768 00:32:42,980 --> 00:32:39,030 route so you only drive so far every day 769 00:32:44,690 --> 00:32:42,990 and you then you stop at the closest 770 00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:44,700 military base you plan your route to 771 00:32:49,549 --> 00:32:46,799 pass military bases that you can stay 772 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:49,559 there so if I'm the convoy commander and 773 00:32:55,610 --> 00:32:51,210 I'm shipping good stuff the last thing 774 00:32:59,180 --> 00:32:55,620 I'm going to do is allow those at the 775 00:33:01,100 --> 00:32:59,190 local base access to this classified 776 00:33:04,159 --> 00:33:01,110 material and yet he's talking about how 777 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:04,169 they were in there prying up the lids of 778 00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:05,970 stuff and looking at it it just makes no 779 00:33:10,130 --> 00:33:08,340 sense me love militarily and I there are 780 00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:10,140 other lots of other problems with with 781 00:33:17,450 --> 00:33:13,679 courses book I met Paul hillyer in May 782 00:33:20,299 --> 00:33:17,460 of this last year and he seemed to be a 783 00:33:22,010 --> 00:33:20,309 very nice gentleman he has connections 784 00:33:24,650 --> 00:33:22,020 into the Canadian government and I 785 00:33:28,370 --> 00:33:24,660 haven't really looked into those with 786 00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:28,380 any great depth so I'm not sure how 787 00:33:33,820 --> 00:33:30,720 credible what he says is and I know that 788 00:33:36,049 --> 00:33:33,830 that very credible people sometimes are 789 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:36,059 swayed by people who are less than 790 00:33:43,460 --> 00:33:40,010 credible so that the fact that he is 791 00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:43,470 believed what what Corso said and 792 00:33:46,610 --> 00:33:44,820 everyone should say Colonel Corso 793 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:46,620 because he did retire as a lieutenant 794 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:53,850 colonel but then again who didn't he you 795 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:55,650 know he may not have had to wherewithal 796 00:34:00,320 --> 00:33:57,890 and may not have understood some of the 797 00:34:03,919 --> 00:34:00,330 outrageous things that corsa was saying 798 00:34:07,940 --> 00:34:03,929 so the fact that he kind of looked at 799 00:34:09,710 --> 00:34:07,950 Corso as a credible source doesn't 800 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:09,720 really undermine his do yours 801 00:34:13,820 --> 00:34:12,210 credibility it just is one of those 802 00:34:18,290 --> 00:34:13,830 things I mean there's an awful lot of 803 00:34:19,460 --> 00:34:18,300 people another fellow is Richard French 804 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:19,470 and if you look at his military 805 00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:21,090 background of what he claims about his 806 00:34:24,590 --> 00:34:23,280 military background it's accurate you 807 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:24,600 know the guy with the guy retired as a 808 00:34:28,700 --> 00:34:26,010 lieutenant colonel and once again who 809 00:34:30,830 --> 00:34:28,710 didn't he had a very distinguished Air 810 00:34:32,659 --> 00:34:30,840 Force career but some of the other 811 00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:32,669 things that he said as you as you went 812 00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:34,950 along don't seem to be grounded in 813 00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:35,700 reality 814 00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:38,399 but the guys like 900 years old so 815 00:34:44,329 --> 00:34:41,609 you're not really sure what what is 816 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:44,339 going on in his mind at that advanced 817 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:46,290 age so you know you can look at all of 818 00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:49,770 this stuff but I think what you have to 819 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:51,839 do is look at the specific gentleman and 820 00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:55,290 say oh it what he is claiming he 821 00:34:59,569 --> 00:34:57,599 personally saw he personally did is this 822 00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,579 a credible story and look at it from 823 00:35:04,910 --> 00:35:01,200 that point of view as opposed to well I 824 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:04,920 believe Colonel Corso type story is that 825 00:35:09,620 --> 00:35:07,130 it hurt or do you have another question 826 00:35:11,930 --> 00:35:09,630 no that's it I thank you praying from 827 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:11,940 the court yeah thanks for thanks for 828 00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:16,650 coming on so getting back Kevin to you 829 00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:19,200 know in the beginning when you were 830 00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:21,119 finding all those witnesses that must 831 00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:22,980 have been like a treasure hunt I mean 832 00:35:28,339 --> 00:35:25,950 maybe not a treasure hunt exciting like 833 00:35:30,349 --> 00:35:28,349 that but it must have been pretty pretty 834 00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:30,359 interesting to start meeting with all 835 00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,609 these people and talking to them about 836 00:35:36,380 --> 00:35:34,800 the account of the whole situation well 837 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:36,390 it certainly was the treasure hunt and 838 00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:38,490 it certainly was exciting and I remember 839 00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:41,310 it being in the hotel lobby in law as 840 00:35:45,620 --> 00:35:43,260 well talking to a fellow down there who 841 00:35:47,030 --> 00:35:45,630 we wanted to make contact with simply 842 00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:47,040 because we knew he had a lot of 843 00:35:52,819 --> 00:35:50,640 photographs and documentation from that 844 00:35:54,890 --> 00:35:52,829 era which could be valuable to us he had 845 00:35:57,980 --> 00:35:54,900 a copy of the Roswell phone book the 846 00:36:01,280 --> 00:35:57,990 base phone book and that became 847 00:36:02,809 --> 00:36:01,290 important because you know what were hot 848 00:36:05,300 --> 00:36:02,819 had done a yearbook of the people who at 849 00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:05,310 the base but Walter said that ten to 850 00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:06,569 twenty percent of the people a sign of 851 00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,089 the base in 1947 art in yearbook the 852 00:36:13,370 --> 00:36:11,520 phone book gave us another another group 853 00:36:14,809 --> 00:36:13,380 of names and some of whom were not in 854 00:36:16,309 --> 00:36:14,819 the in the yearbook and this woman was 855 00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:16,319 talking to us about her cousin or his 856 00:36:20,540 --> 00:36:19,200 honker uncle Daryl Rasmussen and he's 857 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:20,550 not in the yearbook but he's in the 858 00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,290 phone book so we could verify that he 859 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:24,720 was there in the proper time frame so we 860 00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:26,250 were talking to him about some of this 861 00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,280 stuff and I had just mentioned to him 862 00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:30,960 casually that we know we needed to see 863 00:36:37,700 --> 00:36:32,960 if we could find in the family of 864 00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:37,710 Sheriff Wilcox and this fellow says oh I 865 00:36:43,970 --> 00:36:39,630 know one of his daughters will that do 866 00:36:45,319 --> 00:36:43,980 oh yeah it did Kenya collar and he's 867 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:45,329 been sure he'd call her up and so we 868 00:36:49,730 --> 00:36:47,010 went out the next day I met with her 869 00:36:51,230 --> 00:36:49,740 you just be with its it and it's fun to 870 00:36:52,730 --> 00:36:51,240 sit there in the archives and you're 871 00:36:55,070 --> 00:36:52,740 going through stuff and you suddenly 872 00:36:57,230 --> 00:36:55,080 find the answer to the question one of 873 00:36:59,060 --> 00:36:57,240 the things we did a couple years ago 874 00:37:01,700 --> 00:36:59,070 somebody said when was here when was the 875 00:37:03,890 --> 00:37:01,710 year book published you know is this a 876 00:37:05,300 --> 00:37:03,900 relevant question well it might well be 877 00:37:06,770 --> 00:37:05,310 because it gives you an idea of when 878 00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:06,780 they put the thing together who might 879 00:37:10,100 --> 00:37:08,640 have been available who might not have 880 00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:10,110 been available what we discovered was 881 00:37:16,850 --> 00:37:13,350 the year book was published in November 882 00:37:21,050 --> 00:37:16,860 of 1947 but it went to the publisher in 883 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:21,060 August of 1947 so it was put together 884 00:37:28,580 --> 00:37:25,290 prior to prior and during the events of 885 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:28,590 June and July of 1947 and went away in 886 00:37:33,410 --> 00:37:30,690 august of 1947 so the people who were 887 00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:33,420 there in the yearbook probably were 888 00:37:37,250 --> 00:37:35,250 people who were on the base when this 889 00:37:38,780 --> 00:37:37,260 event took place until that that's an 890 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:38,790 interesting discovering kind of an 891 00:37:46,190 --> 00:37:42,330 exciting thing fine or finding finding a 892 00:37:48,140 --> 00:37:46,200 document that that kind of verifies part 893 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:48,150 of an event or lead you to something 894 00:37:53,540 --> 00:37:49,770 else it's just really kind of fun to 895 00:37:57,260 --> 00:37:53,550 find that stuff oh oh I bet and one of 896 00:37:59,810 --> 00:37:57,270 the things I've thought of is it seems 897 00:38:02,210 --> 00:37:59,820 to me that all these people that were 898 00:38:04,130 --> 00:38:02,220 the witnesses did they quietly talk 899 00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:04,140 among themselves so you are aware of any 900 00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:08,280 of that prior to the big blowup of 901 00:38:15,650 --> 00:38:13,710 interest in Roswell which would be 1979 902 00:38:18,190 --> 00:38:15,660 or something like that no no no that was 903 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:18,200 that debt that wasn't a big blowup yes 904 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:22,890 Jesse Marcel came forward in 1978 early 905 00:38:26,420 --> 00:38:24,690 nineteen seventy eight the Roswell 906 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:26,430 incident came out in either in nineteen 907 00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:29,130 eighty or nineteen eighty one but it 908 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:30,900 wasn't the real blow up of information 909 00:38:36,260 --> 00:38:32,610 the real blow up of information came 910 00:38:38,810 --> 00:38:36,270 about after Don's and my book was 911 00:38:40,850 --> 00:38:38,820 published in in 1991 and then Stan 912 00:38:42,170 --> 00:38:40,860 Friedman got in with his book as well 913 00:38:45,830 --> 00:38:42,180 and then there was a big blowup of 914 00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:45,840 information what we found prior to that 915 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:47,760 when these people really didn't talk to 916 00:38:53,870 --> 00:38:51,690 one another but afterwards yeah then 917 00:38:57,220 --> 00:38:53,880 then then there was a circulating of the 918 00:39:02,140 --> 00:38:57,230 of the information we found 919 00:39:03,849 --> 00:39:02,150 in an article that Inez Wilcox had put 920 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:03,859 together called for years in the county 921 00:39:10,060 --> 00:39:07,730 jail and the joke was of course she was 922 00:39:12,070 --> 00:39:10,070 the wife of the sheriff and was sort of 923 00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:12,080 the matron of the jail when there were 924 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:13,730 female prisoners and good the cooking 925 00:39:17,290 --> 00:39:15,410 and that sort of thing for it so the 926 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:17,300 joke of the title was she would spend 927 00:39:22,450 --> 00:39:19,130 four years in the county jail but as a 928 00:39:24,220 --> 00:39:22,460 jailer as opposed to an inmate and and 929 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:24,230 she had the story and one of the things 930 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:27,170 he talked about was just briefly when 931 00:39:33,849 --> 00:39:30,770 this UFO crashed the problem for us was 932 00:39:35,950 --> 00:39:33,859 none of this is dated the original 933 00:39:39,310 --> 00:39:35,960 article doesn't seem to have included 934 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:39,320 that information it was I think it was a 935 00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:42,290 day which means she wanted to add it to 936 00:39:48,370 --> 00:39:46,250 page eight so so it went in there so it 937 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:48,380 wasn't part of the original article but 938 00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:50,450 it came about afterwards so the question 939 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:53,359 then became when did Inez Wilcox died 940 00:39:57,340 --> 00:39:55,010 because if she died prior to nineteen 941 00:39:59,260 --> 00:39:57,350 seventy eight well this is a wonderful 942 00:40:01,660 --> 00:39:59,270 piece of documentation if she died 943 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:01,670 afterwards then it could easily be 944 00:40:07,060 --> 00:40:05,810 contamination and unfortunately and I 945 00:40:10,060 --> 00:40:07,070 said that date to say that cuz it sounds 946 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:10,070 mean but unfortunately she died after 947 00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:12,770 the roswell incident book came out and i 948 00:40:20,890 --> 00:40:18,730 would suspect that that while the the 949 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:20,900 admit that book didn't make a big impact 950 00:40:24,580 --> 00:40:22,850 on the rest of the country of course it 951 00:40:26,410 --> 00:40:24,590 made an impact on New Mexico to made an 952 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:26,420 impact on Roswell so I would suspect 953 00:40:31,180 --> 00:40:28,970 that there was some discussion in the 954 00:40:36,010 --> 00:40:31,190 local newspaper of local TV or radio 955 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:36,020 stations about this UFO crash in Roswell 956 00:40:40,570 --> 00:40:37,850 so at that point I think she might have 957 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:40,580 revisited her article and put that stuff 958 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:42,530 in there doesn't mean it's not true 959 00:40:46,570 --> 00:40:44,810 doesn't mean that she was not writing it 960 00:40:48,099 --> 00:40:46,580 from memory it just means there's a 961 00:40:50,109 --> 00:40:48,109 possibility of contamination and we 962 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:50,119 can't prove it one of the best things we 963 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:53,210 found is a two-paragraph statement by 964 00:40:58,840 --> 00:40:55,850 Lydia schlepping she was the teletype 965 00:41:04,300 --> 00:40:58,850 operator at the radio station I think KF 966 00:41:05,830 --> 00:41:04,310 no k kg FL with the Roswell station she 967 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:05,840 was up at the Albuquerque station I 968 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:08,330 forget what the call sign of it was but 969 00:41:11,050 --> 00:41:09,890 she was the one who was typing the the 970 00:41:13,810 --> 00:41:11,060 message when it was interrupt 971 00:41:15,730 --> 00:41:13,820 said do not transmit and there's a two 972 00:41:19,420 --> 00:41:15,740 paragraphs that appear in a saga 973 00:41:21,070 --> 00:41:19,430 magazine in july july say in 1976 i 974 00:41:23,410 --> 00:41:21,080 forget the month but two paragraphs in 975 00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:23,420 part of a UFO story about that well 976 00:41:26,740 --> 00:41:25,250 clearly she was not influenced by jesse 977 00:41:28,450 --> 00:41:26,750 marcel she was not influenced by the 978 00:41:30,730 --> 00:41:28,460 discussion of roswell disappeared two 979 00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:30,740 years prior to that so that's a nice 980 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:34,250 little piece of evidence for us Wow well 981 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:38,690 when you were finding these people were 982 00:41:42,730 --> 00:41:40,610 there quite a few of them that didn't 983 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:42,740 were still like scared and didn't want 984 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:45,170 to talk about it edwin easily who with 985 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:46,970 the provost marshal told me repeatedly 986 00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:48,770 and i have it on tape he can't talk 987 00:41:53,050 --> 00:41:50,240 about he was sworn to secrecy i don't 988 00:41:54,430 --> 00:41:53,060 think he was scared so much as he was 989 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:54,440 honorable and he didn't want to talk 990 00:41:58,720 --> 00:41:56,210 about he wanted to help us as much as he 991 00:42:01,050 --> 00:41:58,730 could provided us with with interesting 992 00:42:03,370 --> 00:42:01,060 little tidbits like that Brazel 993 00:42:07,180 --> 00:42:03,380 complained the mac brazel complained 994 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:07,190 about being in jail but but easily told 995 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:09,650 us he was held in the guest house which 996 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:11,330 is not exactly a jail but if the doors 997 00:42:14,740 --> 00:42:12,650 locked and there's a guard on the door 998 00:42:17,710 --> 00:42:14,750 then you know what's really the 999 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:17,720 difference but but I mean easily easily 1000 00:42:21,730 --> 00:42:19,850 gave us that little snippet of 1001 00:42:24,850 --> 00:42:21,740 information that nobody else had 1002 00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:24,860 developed and talked talked briefly 1003 00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:27,680 about what he had seen but but when we 1004 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:29,390 got specific questions you would say to 1005 00:42:35,590 --> 00:42:31,370 me I can't tell you about that I was 1006 00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:35,600 sworn to secrecy no heavy dope pardon me 1007 00:42:41,860 --> 00:42:38,720 have you been following the person that 1008 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:41,870 claims they have a I think it's a kodak 1009 00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:45,650 slide of supposed alien zat roswell have 1010 00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:49,030 you followed that at all hi yeah i have 1011 00:42:54,850 --> 00:42:52,640 and what what is your do you want to 1012 00:42:56,290 --> 00:42:54,860 talk about that at all well the easiest 1013 00:43:00,190 --> 00:42:56,300 the easy things say is there's no 1014 00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:00,200 provenance for it yeah and that that 1015 00:43:06,850 --> 00:43:01,510 mean that's the tough one to overcome 1016 00:43:10,750 --> 00:43:06,860 apparently this slide is old enough to 1017 00:43:12,310 --> 00:43:10,760 have been taken in 1947 but we don't 1018 00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:12,320 know who took the slide we don't know 1019 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:13,760 who took the photograph we don't know 1020 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:15,050 where the photographs came from we 1021 00:43:19,210 --> 00:43:16,250 really don't know anything about it 1022 00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:19,220 there are attempts to verify this and 1023 00:43:23,650 --> 00:43:22,160 kodak as I understood it and I 1024 00:43:24,849 --> 00:43:23,660 understand it from all they said well 1025 00:43:28,180 --> 00:43:24,859 the coating on the 1026 00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:28,190 film was correct for 1947 and I said 1027 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:30,710 when I said you realize they recycled 1028 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:33,650 the codes what do you mean it's is the 1029 00:43:38,140 --> 00:43:35,690 every 20 years they recycled the code so 1030 00:43:40,900 --> 00:43:38,150 the film might have been made in 1947 1031 00:43:44,799 --> 00:43:40,910 might have been made in 1927 might have 1032 00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:44,809 been made in 1967 the cardboard holder 1033 00:43:48,749 --> 00:43:46,700 would give you a clue was the age of it 1034 00:43:54,220 --> 00:43:48,759 yes but I haven't seen I haven't seen 1035 00:43:56,339 --> 00:43:54,230 the slide but once again it the story of 1036 00:44:00,249 --> 00:43:56,349 the way to slide developed is sort of 1037 00:44:02,410 --> 00:44:00,259 alien autopsy light which simply means 1038 00:44:04,509 --> 00:44:02,420 rather than have movie footage they've 1039 00:44:07,499 --> 00:44:04,519 got just a slide which is what you do to 1040 00:44:11,380 --> 00:44:07,509 to fake them then movie footage would be 1041 00:44:14,049 --> 00:44:11,390 I very dubious of it because of the lack 1042 00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:14,059 of provenance but I know that the 1043 00:44:20,829 --> 00:44:17,839 investigation is ongoing to to verify as 1044 00:44:22,749 --> 00:44:20,839 much as they possibly can about it so 1045 00:44:24,549 --> 00:44:22,759 it's it's an interesting thing I do not 1046 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:24,559 hold out much hope that it's going to be 1047 00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:26,690 authenticated I'm not sure how you going 1048 00:44:31,499 --> 00:44:29,119 to senic ate it without a Providence but 1049 00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:31,509 I know that the investigation is ongoing 1050 00:44:37,180 --> 00:44:34,400 so you kind of look at it from the point 1051 00:44:38,890 --> 00:44:37,190 of view well I think it's a hoax but we 1052 00:44:42,430 --> 00:44:38,900 got a check to make sure because what if 1053 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:42,440 it's not right then we and then we 1054 00:44:47,170 --> 00:44:44,450 stopped the questions and we can move on 1055 00:44:49,059 --> 00:44:47,180 to other other avenues of Investigation 1056 00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:49,069 once we have that sort of if we have 1057 00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:50,960 that sort of evidence in a hospital hand 1058 00:44:54,370 --> 00:44:52,640 and say well you know guys we got a 1059 00:44:55,630 --> 00:44:54,380 picture of the thing now maybe the 1060 00:44:57,279 --> 00:44:55,640 government like to tell us what they 1061 00:44:59,650 --> 00:44:57,289 really know about what happened at 1062 00:45:02,440 --> 00:44:59,660 Roswell since we can demonstrate 1063 00:45:05,049 --> 00:45:02,450 something really did happen there but 1064 00:45:07,749 --> 00:45:05,059 but the the slides like I said it's I 1065 00:45:12,299 --> 00:45:07,759 think there's two of them basically of a 1066 00:45:16,170 --> 00:45:12,309 single single entity and the 1067 00:45:18,099 --> 00:45:16,180 investigation is ongoing into into 1068 00:45:20,140 --> 00:45:18,109 validating the age of the film 1069 00:45:22,989 --> 00:45:20,150 validating as much as a can of what's 1070 00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:22,999 seen in the background validating all of 1071 00:45:26,170 --> 00:45:24,319 those sorts of things so they were 1072 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:26,180 working to do that I know the guy that 1073 00:45:34,210 --> 00:45:31,930 owns the slides is a little bit leery of 1074 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:34,220 releasing all the information he wants 1075 00:45:38,170 --> 00:45:35,930 to control it it's his slides and he 1076 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:38,180 certainly can control it is as he wants 1077 00:45:40,180 --> 00:45:38,810 to let he 1078 00:45:42,090 --> 00:45:40,190 is cooperating with some of the 1079 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:42,100 investigators on getting the provenance 1080 00:45:45,460 --> 00:45:44,210 established and that sort of thing if 1081 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:45,470 they can do that then they'd let a 1082 00:45:50,410 --> 00:45:47,210 wonderful piece of evidence and if they 1083 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:50,420 don't then then we're mj-12 all over 1084 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:52,370 again you know well trace it to here and 1085 00:45:57,940 --> 00:45:55,010 that's yet mm-hmm do you know who 1086 00:46:00,700 --> 00:45:57,950 besides the person that owns a slide is 1087 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:00,710 it are they quietly being shown to any 1088 00:46:06,340 --> 00:46:03,650 researchers or is it just right now yes 1089 00:46:10,540 --> 00:46:06,350 and yes yes and there and it's an 1090 00:46:12,910 --> 00:46:10,550 ongoing thing I hesitate to say this 1091 00:46:15,220 --> 00:46:12,920 because it just infuriates some people 1092 00:46:17,020 --> 00:46:15,230 but I was not really a participant in 1093 00:46:19,420 --> 00:46:17,030 the investigation I was aware of some of 1094 00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:19,430 the things going on I learned of the 1095 00:46:24,460 --> 00:46:22,160 slide through a blog posting and I think 1096 00:46:26,620 --> 00:46:24,470 Nick Redfern provided me with a great 1097 00:46:30,100 --> 00:46:26,630 deal of information about it that he had 1098 00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:30,110 learned through his contacts in Texas 1099 00:46:34,660 --> 00:46:32,960 and Nick Nick was very forthcoming with 1100 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:34,670 me on this and I learned some additional 1101 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:36,890 things but there is an ongoing 1102 00:46:41,830 --> 00:46:39,290 investigation in the hands of the UFO 1103 00:46:45,310 --> 00:46:41,840 researchers and they're they're moving 1104 00:46:48,220 --> 00:46:45,320 carefully because we've seen too many of 1105 00:46:50,620 --> 00:46:48,230 these things blow up when information 1106 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:50,630 was released prematurely or other people 1107 00:46:56,770 --> 00:46:52,850 with other agendas that there are people 1108 00:46:59,500 --> 00:46:56,780 who have agendas to it since there 1109 00:47:01,480 --> 00:46:59,510 cannot be any alien visitation ergo 1110 00:47:04,420 --> 00:47:01,490 anything that shows it must be a hoax 1111 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:04,430 type of attitude and we and we see this 1112 00:47:07,420 --> 00:47:06,050 all that we see this all the time they 1113 00:47:08,620 --> 00:47:07,430 just don't want to look at the evidence 1114 00:47:11,410 --> 00:47:08,630 they're going to reject the evidence 1115 00:47:13,180 --> 00:47:11,420 that doesn't fit into their narrow world 1116 00:47:14,710 --> 00:47:13,190 view we see it on the other side of the 1117 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:14,720 coin as well with the true believers and 1118 00:47:18,700 --> 00:47:15,890 this is where I get myself into trouble 1119 00:47:20,860 --> 00:47:18,710 the tube believers want everything 1120 00:47:23,260 --> 00:47:20,870 validated yo do you believe the story 1121 00:47:25,540 --> 00:47:23,270 well not really it's not very good and 1122 00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:25,550 they become angry because you haven't 1123 00:47:29,410 --> 00:47:27,680 validated their story but I try to go 1124 00:47:31,660 --> 00:47:29,420 where the evidence takes me and that I 1125 00:47:34,540 --> 00:47:31,670 think makes me somewhat of a playa to 1126 00:47:37,180 --> 00:47:34,550 too many people well I think that's the 1127 00:47:39,460 --> 00:47:37,190 way to go what type of evidence would 1128 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:39,470 you think would really crack this case 1129 00:47:43,810 --> 00:47:42,050 open I mean we have there's all kinds of 1130 00:47:46,420 --> 00:47:43,820 witness testimony there's people that 1131 00:47:51,020 --> 00:47:46,430 claim that they've held you know this 1132 00:47:52,490 --> 00:47:51,030 unusual fabric material in their hands 1133 00:47:55,130 --> 00:47:52,500 there's all kinds of claims like that 1134 00:47:58,670 --> 00:47:55,140 but what type of evidence in short of 1135 00:48:00,440 --> 00:47:58,680 actually finding in the ground well I've 1136 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:00,450 often said you know we have to develop 1137 00:48:03,470 --> 00:48:01,890 multiple change of evidence and the 1138 00:48:06,980 --> 00:48:03,480 testimony is certainly want to change 1139 00:48:08,570 --> 00:48:06,990 and it's an important change but we have 1140 00:48:11,290 --> 00:48:08,580 to do is look at documentation is there 1141 00:48:15,230 --> 00:48:11,300 any documentation well yeah there is 1142 00:48:16,910 --> 00:48:15,240 there there's an FBI telex that doesn't 1143 00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:16,920 really tell us much there are some 1144 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:19,710 newspaper articles from the time that 1145 00:48:25,460 --> 00:48:23,490 give us gives us information I would 1146 00:48:28,370 --> 00:48:25,470 love to see and we have not been able to 1147 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:28,380 find it a letter from one of the 1148 00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:30,210 soldiers at Roswell to family members 1149 00:48:36,650 --> 00:48:33,720 dated you like july nine nineteen forty 1150 00:48:39,020 --> 00:48:36,660 seven or a diary held by somebody where 1151 00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:39,030 we bought it with one died we found was 1152 00:48:45,620 --> 00:48:42,000 Ruth Barnett Barney Barnett being the 1153 00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:45,630 guy who supposedly saw the crash saucer 1154 00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:47,520 on the plane to san agustin we found we 1155 00:48:52,190 --> 00:48:49,440 found a diary for 1947 he gives 1156 00:48:55,790 --> 00:48:52,200 absolutely no hint Bonnie Barnett saw 1157 00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:55,800 anything in fact answered some questions 1158 00:49:02,120 --> 00:48:59,760 for us I was I was told of another diary 1159 00:49:05,390 --> 00:49:02,130 that says this was supposedly existed on 1160 00:49:08,030 --> 00:49:05,400 a ranch in up near the corona area but 1161 00:49:09,740 --> 00:49:08,040 it was in an outbuilding and in talking 1162 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:09,750 to Tom Carrie I discovered he'd been 1163 00:49:13,850 --> 00:49:12,330 down that path already and the 1164 00:49:15,970 --> 00:49:13,860 outbuilding was full of snakes and 1165 00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:15,980 scorpions two of my very favorite things 1166 00:49:21,410 --> 00:49:19,440 but I there was he just couldn't he 1167 00:49:23,930 --> 00:49:21,420 couldn't take it any further and if Tom 1168 00:49:25,310 --> 00:49:23,940 had not gotten to it that I certainly 1169 00:49:26,510 --> 00:49:25,320 wasn't going to get to especially if 1170 00:49:29,300 --> 00:49:26,520 there was scorpions and snakes in the 1171 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:29,310 damn building I was wasn't going to be 1172 00:49:33,370 --> 00:49:31,050 digging around in there looking for a 1173 00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:33,380 diary so I mean that that lead blew up 1174 00:49:38,930 --> 00:49:37,110 we've been through all kinds of 1175 00:49:40,460 --> 00:49:38,940 documentation I spent hours and hours 1176 00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:40,470 going through curry Holden's 1177 00:49:43,610 --> 00:49:42,000 documentation Holden being an 1178 00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:43,620 archaeologist who would supposedly saw 1179 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:46,110 this thing he had being out of Texas 1180 00:49:50,570 --> 00:49:48,810 Tech University and his papers are all 1181 00:49:51,860 --> 00:49:50,580 at the University and I spent hours and 1182 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:51,870 hours and hours going through his 1183 00:49:57,950 --> 00:49:54,690 Diaries in his records and even his tax 1184 00:50:00,620 --> 00:49:57,960 statements and his cancelled checks and 1185 00:50:01,790 --> 00:50:00,630 so on the July fourth weekend we 1186 00:50:02,890 --> 00:50:01,800 couldn't put him we couldn't put him 1187 00:50:05,799 --> 00:50:02,900 anywhere I 1188 00:50:08,859 --> 00:50:05,809 he wrote a check to an organization I 1189 00:50:11,289 --> 00:50:08,869 think on Friday morning and the next 1190 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:11,299 time he appears is Monday afternoon and 1191 00:50:16,980 --> 00:50:14,450 you know it's a long a long weekend 1192 00:50:19,420 --> 00:50:16,990 because of the fourth of July holiday 1193 00:50:20,859 --> 00:50:19,430 but we couldn't establish that he was in 1194 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:20,869 New Mexico at the time could he have 1195 00:50:27,549 --> 00:50:22,970 been in New Mexico it's like a three 1196 00:50:29,289 --> 00:50:27,559 hour drive from from Lubbock to Roswell 1197 00:50:31,510 --> 00:50:29,299 even in that time frame it would have 1198 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:31,520 been that Hercule enough Ted a task to 1199 00:50:35,559 --> 00:50:34,130 get from Lubbock to Roswell so he could 1200 00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:35,569 have been there with with students at 1201 00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:38,000 any number of archaeological sites in 1202 00:50:42,250 --> 00:50:40,250 the area and a lot of the sites 1203 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:42,260 archaeological sites for example are 1204 00:50:47,319 --> 00:50:44,930 hidden by the archaeologists because 1205 00:50:48,819 --> 00:50:47,329 they don't want trophy hunters getting 1206 00:50:52,690 --> 00:50:48,829 in there or pot hunters getting in there 1207 00:50:55,029 --> 00:50:52,700 disturbing the site so you know they're 1208 00:50:56,980 --> 00:50:55,039 usually very coy about these sorts of 1209 00:50:58,569 --> 00:50:56,990 things we could not establish him in New 1210 00:51:01,569 --> 00:50:58,579 Mexico but we couldn't establish him in 1211 00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:01,579 Lubbock either so I mean we look at all 1212 00:51:07,539 --> 00:51:03,440 that sort of thing but we cannot come up 1213 00:51:10,059 --> 00:51:07,549 with the documentation Frank Joyce who 1214 00:51:12,519 --> 00:51:10,069 was the radio announcer at KGC FL in 1215 00:51:15,309 --> 00:51:12,529 1947 talk to Mac Brazel cordia what 1216 00:51:17,710 --> 00:51:15,319 Joyce told us and he said when the story 1217 00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:17,720 came down he took a lot of the teletype 1218 00:51:21,910 --> 00:51:20,089 records and hid them so that they 1219 00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:21,920 wouldn't be confiscating so the military 1220 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:23,599 came through and took a lot of stuff but 1221 00:51:27,970 --> 00:51:25,490 they didn't get all his records but his 1222 00:51:31,180 --> 00:51:27,980 records are not helpful at all it talks 1223 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:31,190 about the when the story broke on July 1224 00:51:35,289 --> 00:51:33,410 eighth there was a teletype message is 1225 00:51:37,539 --> 00:51:35,299 this the halibel ooh that was on a ranch 1226 00:51:39,069 --> 00:51:37,549 down in there last week and we're going 1227 00:51:41,260 --> 00:51:39,079 what's that about but it turns out that 1228 00:51:43,930 --> 00:51:41,270 has something that was something that 1229 00:51:45,730 --> 00:51:43,940 took place and I think it was Las Cruces 1230 00:51:48,490 --> 00:51:45,740 has nothing to do with the Roswell case 1231 00:51:50,859 --> 00:51:48,500 but it took us a while to divine exactly 1232 00:51:52,779 --> 00:51:50,869 what that hullabaloo was all about so 1233 00:51:54,609 --> 00:51:52,789 the documentation I'd love to find a 1234 00:51:56,260 --> 00:51:54,619 piece of documentation like that with 1235 00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:56,270 the known province once one thing we do 1236 00:52:01,180 --> 00:51:58,400 have is the picture of general Ramey 1237 00:52:03,130 --> 00:52:01,190 taken in his office on july eight 1947 1238 00:52:05,410 --> 00:52:03,140 he's holding in his hand a piece of 1239 00:52:07,269 --> 00:52:05,420 paper that with a magnifying glass you 1240 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:07,279 can actually read some words on it and 1241 00:52:13,299 --> 00:52:09,770 we were trying to decipher but it's held 1242 00:52:15,130 --> 00:52:13,309 at an angle it was the focus was on 1243 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:15,140 rainy and not on the piece of paper so 1244 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:16,130 there's there's 1245 00:52:23,230 --> 00:52:18,170 interpretation problems and we're trying 1246 00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:23,240 to find a way that we can we can clarify 1247 00:52:31,470 --> 00:52:27,680 what the document says so that if you're 1248 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:31,480 of a skeptical mind we say this is how 1249 00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:34,130 we were able to determine what it says 1250 00:52:38,770 --> 00:52:36,400 you know here is the here is the scans 1251 00:52:40,630 --> 00:52:38,780 see you follow these steps you should 1252 00:52:42,820 --> 00:52:40,640 come to the same place we are let's 1253 00:52:44,380 --> 00:52:42,830 compare notes so there would be a 1254 00:52:45,460 --> 00:52:44,390 wonderful piece of documentation with a 1255 00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:45,470 known province because we know 1256 00:52:48,550 --> 00:52:46,610 provenance because we know the guys 1257 00:52:50,740 --> 00:52:48,560 holding the document we see see him 1258 00:52:52,210 --> 00:52:50,750 there and i found the documentation the 1259 00:52:54,670 --> 00:52:52,220 showed the picture was transmitted at 1260 00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:54,680 1159 p.m. on july eight so we know the 1261 00:52:59,080 --> 00:52:57,410 time so here's clearly rainy it's 1262 00:53:01,810 --> 00:52:59,090 clearly something that has to do with 1263 00:53:03,700 --> 00:53:01,820 the Rossignol case because to the words 1264 00:53:05,350 --> 00:53:03,710 you can read his weather balloons with a 1265 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:05,360 magnifying glass I mean a kid with a 1266 00:53:10,180 --> 00:53:07,370 magnifying glass and any by ten can read 1267 00:53:13,810 --> 00:53:10,190 that much so we're hoping to be able to 1268 00:53:18,250 --> 00:53:13,820 clarify more of that you know the 1269 00:53:21,100 --> 00:53:18,260 controversy on that is on a phrase that 1270 00:53:24,310 --> 00:53:21,110 says victims of the wreck if it in fact 1271 00:53:25,540 --> 00:53:24,320 as victims of the wreck that means one 1272 00:53:27,010 --> 00:53:25,550 thing but there are people who 1273 00:53:28,660 --> 00:53:27,020 interpreted that phrase is saying the 1274 00:53:30,970 --> 00:53:28,670 remains of the wreck which is a whole 1275 00:53:33,340 --> 00:53:30,980 different thing remains of the record 1276 00:53:36,550 --> 00:53:33,350 refer to weather balloon crap as opposed 1277 00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:36,560 to you know victim suggests biological 1278 00:53:41,620 --> 00:53:40,130 entities remains suggest just debris so 1279 00:53:48,450 --> 00:53:41,630 there there are things that we're trying 1280 00:53:50,530 --> 00:53:48,460 to clarify I hold out a little hope that 1281 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:50,540 we're going to be able to do that we've 1282 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:52,850 talked to the right people to to get 1283 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:54,770 this thing done properly it's just a 1284 00:53:59,350 --> 00:53:56,570 question of getting all the pieces now 1285 00:54:02,140 --> 00:53:59,360 in a row so that we can do what we need 1286 00:54:04,060 --> 00:54:02,150 to do to find out but there's been a big 1287 00:54:07,450 --> 00:54:04,070 controversy about this rainy memo since 1288 00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:07,460 the 1990s and we're hoping that as our 1289 00:54:12,370 --> 00:54:09,470 technology is now improved we may be 1290 00:54:14,350 --> 00:54:12,380 able to clarify some of the sentences 1291 00:54:17,980 --> 00:54:14,360 and get an idea of exactly what it says 1292 00:54:19,570 --> 00:54:17,990 isn't there a guy and like San Francisco 1293 00:54:22,270 --> 00:54:19,580 or something that's working on this like 1294 00:54:23,650 --> 00:54:22,280 on a daily basis well there's no no 1295 00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:23,660 don't be really working on on a daily 1296 00:54:26,710 --> 00:54:25,250 basis that I think you're referring to 1297 00:54:28,750 --> 00:54:26,720 David looting ACK 1298 00:54:31,330 --> 00:54:28,760 right and he he done an awful lot of 1299 00:54:33,580 --> 00:54:31,340 work on the rainy memo but he's taken it 1300 00:54:37,690 --> 00:54:33,590 as far as he can take it with the scans 1301 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:37,700 that have been made at this point and so 1302 00:54:41,950 --> 00:54:39,530 we're hoping that that there's some 1303 00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:41,960 technology we can now employ that will 1304 00:54:45,940 --> 00:54:44,240 improve the quality of that sort of 1305 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:45,950 thing and David's aware of what were 1306 00:54:50,380 --> 00:54:48,290 what were attempting to do david is of 1307 00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:50,390 the opinion that it says victims of the 1308 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:52,400 wreck I know Tom Carey is the same way 1309 00:54:56,859 --> 00:54:55,010 and I've looked at that sentence and boy 1310 00:54:58,480 --> 00:54:56,869 I can see victims there but I can also 1311 00:55:00,490 --> 00:54:58,490 see remains you know it's just one of 1312 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:00,500 those things where it's just on the edge 1313 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:04,490 of of veg abilities just you know you're 1314 00:55:09,370 --> 00:55:06,650 justifying your own perception to it and 1315 00:55:11,260 --> 00:55:09,380 it's kind of where you wanted to go Jim 1316 00:55:17,550 --> 00:55:11,270 Moran and I had done a scientific 1317 00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:17,560 experiment with this using a university 1318 00:55:21,220 --> 00:55:19,910 psychology students if you if you ever 1319 00:55:23,290 --> 00:55:21,230 took psychology in college you know 1320 00:55:25,300 --> 00:55:23,300 you're required usually to participate 1321 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:25,310 in experiments so they always have a 1322 00:55:31,180 --> 00:55:29,690 fresh crop of victims in that and there 1323 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:31,190 were three groups a control group of 1324 00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:32,690 course it was told nothing about the 1325 00:55:35,770 --> 00:55:34,160 memo there was a group that said this 1326 00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:35,780 had to do with atomic testing and 1327 00:55:39,849 --> 00:55:37,520 another group that was told it had to be 1328 00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:39,859 you know it had something to do with you 1329 00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:41,359 off loes and they were given the thing 1330 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:43,760 and the best quality that we had at the 1331 00:55:48,370 --> 00:55:46,130 time and they didn't spend anywhere the 1332 00:55:50,829 --> 00:55:48,380 time that good david has spent on on 1333 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:50,839 trying to investigate it but those who 1334 00:55:57,220 --> 00:55:55,010 who were told about the atomic aspect of 1335 00:56:00,130 --> 00:55:57,230 at the atomic bomb aspect of it saw 1336 00:56:01,510 --> 00:56:00,140 things in the memo that suggested the 1337 00:56:04,150 --> 00:56:01,520 word that spring to my mind that they 1338 00:56:08,020 --> 00:56:04,160 saw that it they saw the word flash like 1339 00:56:11,050 --> 00:56:08,030 atomic flash and those who you know saw 1340 00:56:14,130 --> 00:56:11,060 UFO we're told about UFO saw some UFO 1341 00:56:16,780 --> 00:56:14,140 related things all this did was suggest 1342 00:56:18,730 --> 00:56:16,790 that there was a certain amount of 1343 00:56:20,740 --> 00:56:18,740 priming which is I'm sure everybody 1344 00:56:22,359 --> 00:56:20,750 knows a psychological term means it you 1345 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:22,369 know you you you tell somebody this is 1346 00:56:26,170 --> 00:56:23,810 going to happen and now they're ready to 1347 00:56:28,810 --> 00:56:26,180 see that sort of thing happened it's a 1348 00:56:32,260 --> 00:56:28,820 bit of a contingent contaminating your 1349 00:56:34,150 --> 00:56:32,270 your witness pool that way so we were 1350 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:34,160 able to determine that yeah there could 1351 00:56:39,210 --> 00:56:36,890 be some priming going on as people saw 1352 00:56:41,790 --> 00:56:39,220 in this message what they wanted to see 1353 00:56:45,089 --> 00:56:41,800 but we're hoping that we can clarify 1354 00:56:46,650 --> 00:56:45,099 that stuff and divine exactly what it 1355 00:56:48,690 --> 00:56:46,660 says and that would be that would 1356 00:56:50,220 --> 00:56:48,700 eliminate one way or another we neither 1357 00:56:51,630 --> 00:56:50,230 find out it had nothing to do with 1358 00:56:53,580 --> 00:56:51,640 Roswell or had to do with weather 1359 00:56:55,050 --> 00:56:53,590 balloons or if it says victims are 1360 00:56:57,839 --> 00:56:55,060 directly got a whole nother kettle of 1361 00:57:00,330 --> 00:56:57,849 fish that's right well Kevin I don't 1362 00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:00,340 know where the time went but we're right 1363 00:57:05,550 --> 00:57:03,730 at the end I cannot believe that if we 1364 00:57:07,980 --> 00:57:05,560 went pretty fast I would like to have 1365 00:57:10,050 --> 00:57:07,990 you back on again and we can explore 1366 00:57:13,830 --> 00:57:10,060 some other topics if you're all jumpy 1367 00:57:16,500 --> 00:57:13,840 don't keep sending the money yes it's in 1368 00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:16,510 the mail so yet you said that didn't you 1369 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:18,640 yeah hey so where can someone find your 1370 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:22,090 blog spot oh there you go blog site it's 1371 00:57:27,930 --> 00:57:25,810 at Kevin Randall blogspot com they type 1372 00:57:28,890 --> 00:57:27,940 a different perspective into Google and 1373 00:57:30,690 --> 00:57:28,900 that's usually the first thing that 1374 00:57:32,970 --> 00:57:30,700 comes up now in a google search is a 1375 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:32,980 different perspective type my name into 1376 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:35,490 at Kevin Randall and it's our aandl a 1377 00:57:41,250 --> 00:57:39,010 type my name into it and you you'll come 1378 00:57:42,870 --> 00:57:41,260 to that you'll also find that a guy 1379 00:57:44,490 --> 00:57:42,880 named Kevin Randall was picked up for 1380 00:57:46,050 --> 00:57:44,500 drunk driving in Florida but I can prove 1381 00:57:47,940 --> 00:57:46,060 it was not me because if the kind news 1382 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:47,950 picked up for drunk driving I was 1383 00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:50,290 actually in Iraq so I'm time I'm cleared 1384 00:57:55,650 --> 00:57:52,000 on that one and you have promised to 1385 00:57:57,180 --> 00:57:55,660 verify this yes in fact I was just 1386 00:57:58,260 --> 00:57:57,190 awarded the bronze time for my service 1387 00:58:00,060 --> 00:57:58,270 in Iraq and it gives the dates of 1388 00:58:03,540 --> 00:58:00,070 service so yes I've got documentation 1389 00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:03,550 that's good but if they look at if they 1390 00:58:09,630 --> 00:58:06,640 go to amazon.com there's kindle books so 1391 00:58:12,510 --> 00:58:09,640 they could like be reading my stuff in a 1392 00:58:14,609 --> 00:58:12,520 minute and a couple of things are like 1393 00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:14,619 99 cents so it's you know book link 1394 00:58:19,380 --> 00:58:18,160 book-length manuscript for 99 cents and 1395 00:58:20,430 --> 00:58:19,390 there's some science fiction up there 1396 00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:20,440 there's a nice with a book called 1397 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:23,440 conversations it really was a abduction 1398 00:58:28,410 --> 00:58:25,690 vest investigation and went in a bizarre 1399 00:58:30,359 --> 00:58:28,420 direction so there's some stuff there so 1400 00:58:36,300 --> 00:58:30,369 they can look at my blog they can look 1401 00:58:37,829 --> 00:58:36,310 at the books or they can just ignore all 1402 00:58:40,020 --> 00:58:37,839 right great well you take care of Kevin 1403 00:58:42,690 --> 00:58:40,030 well thank you very much all right thank 1404 00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:42,700 you well that's it for our show today if 1405 00:58:47,579 --> 00:58:45,040 you missed any part of this show you can 1406 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:47,589 catch it as a podcast and a whole bunch 1407 00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:49,810 of other free podcast on our website 1408 00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:52,890 which is podcast UFO calm 1409 00:58:58,109 --> 00:58:55,450 also you can check out links to the 1410 00:58:59,849 --> 00:58:58,119 stories in our show notes as well as 1411 00:59:02,459 --> 00:58:59,859 joining in the conversation in our 1412 00:59:05,279 --> 00:59:02,469 forums I want to thank everyone that 1413 00:59:08,370 --> 00:59:05,289 helped out today including Kerry Lloyd 1414 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:08,380 White House for our music Keith Rowland 1415 00:59:12,959 --> 00:59:10,210 the producer of dark matter radio 1416 00:59:15,989 --> 00:59:12,969 network as well as Peggy shining for 1417 00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:15,999 admitting our Facebook page remember to 1418 00:59:21,660 --> 00:59:18,160 Like 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